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Posted 1/17/2014
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Both are really amazing products but is one really better than the other? Tricky question; it all depends on the process is the answer.

Backyard BHO can be left with wax, mystery oils, and butane left in; no one wants that.
CO2 extractions are always full of wax.

High quality BHO has no wax in it, nor does it have mystery oil, or butane. This takes skill and a ton of very expensive tools.

How to tell if your extract has wax in it. All you have to do is ask yourself one question: Can i look through it like glass or is it opaque. If the extract is see through, you have a clean concentrate. If your product can not been seen through you have an inferior extract. Call it what you will, shatter, eerl, budder, honeycomb, crumble: if you can't see through it cleanly, you have a product that has wax in it, potentially a lot of wax. All non-shatter products have other issues as well but that is not what this is about.

Why is wax a big deal? Because when you vaporize or smoke your extract the wax will cover the alveoli in your lungs which clearly takes it out of the good for you "medicinal" zone. Also, if you coat the alveoli, you will not get all the goodness from the extract. A side effect from wax is that your lung capacity drops which will have a serious detriment to your work outs if you are an athlete. I am not a doctor but i know smoking "wax" is a bad idea.

Now, I really like the idea of the CO2 extractions because if the lack of solvents but, till someone figures out how to get rid of the wax i have to believe it is an inferior extract when compared to a lab processed Butane extract that has been properly filtered and purged.

Anyone have thoughts?

Posted 1/22/2014
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C02 becomes a solvent at the pressures required to extract and a poor C02 process has just as much crap remaining in it as a poorly purged butane extraction. Testing labs will confirm this. Co2 is way over-rated because of the misnomer that it is solvent free. There's only one solvent free extraction out there and that's a nitrogen extract.

Want to remove all residual butane from an extract? Decarb it. Want to remove all the solids and waxes? Winterize it. Simple as that.

Posted 1/23/2014
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What are you talking about?! As someone who produces over 800 grams of CO2 oil a day, I can assure you that CO2 is solventless. What crap are you talking about? Theres nothing to be left in it. The oil comes out as soft serve because it is frozen from the CO2. Once it defrosts and is properly dewatered, it is one of the cleanest concentrates you can possibly use. I wouldn't have spent 80,000 on the machine I own if I thought any less.
You can remove waxes from CO2 by winterizing it with ethanol and letting the alcohol burn off. I then purge it yet again in a vac oven. I have every batch tested by a company here in WA, potency/solvents/microbials so I know whats in it. The huge benefit to winterizing is that it cleans the oil of wax AND can almost double the potency. Think 75%-85%.
NEVER HAVE I FOUND SOLVENT IN CO2 OIL PRIOR TO WINTERIZING.
I personally wouldnt smoke BHO because of the butane that can be left in it, although many people like it. It's a personal preference though. I'm currently building a spark free room to have out two machines running at once in a zone where our facility and employee arent at risk. RSO is pointless to smoke as it is fully activated after it is extracted. RSO is great for edibles. but it tastes terrible and is more often than not full of ethanol.

Posted 1/27/2014
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You can't assure me of anything as I trust lab results over some wannabe oil head.

Posted 1/28/2014
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i do agree that co2 has to be the cleanest way if you don't properly process bho. I will remain full of wax though. BHO can be filtered without going to the "absolute" stage that you have mentioned. I have never seen "Absolute CO2 extractions" anywhere.

I will have to argue with you that to remove all the butane from bho requires a full decarb. testing proves otherwise.

you seem to know your stuff co2 guy, cool. thank you for joining in!

Posted 3/3/2014
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Butane should never be used !! Not only is it dangerous to make, what is it doing to your lungs? Butane is a chemical. Stop using this poison. PLEASE!!!!

Posted 11/24/2014
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@ Kat: And that is why amateurs who don't understand basic chemistry and, most importantly, lab safety should leave extractions involving volatile compounds to the professionals or the meticulously clear-headed self-taught chemists. A basic understanding of chemistry and physics will go a long way in keeping people safe. Too many people have died and or have hurt others as a result of just plain ignorance and not being present in the here and now with a focus on the task at hand.

@ everyone else: great discussion on both sides of the CO2/Butane debate.

PS I hate to burst your bubble of delusion, but chemicals come from nature. You eat them everyday. Some are good for us in the proper balance and some are not. Your beloved herb is also a drug by definition. So is most food. The definition of a drug is anything that causes a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body. I know many people hate referring to cannabis as a drug, bc of the picture it conjures of Big Pharma, but it is. Many say that it is natural, and if you eat it raw, that is true, but the THC will not be "activated". If you process it in any way prior to ingesting it, that is not "natural". This includes smoking/vaping. Just trying to bring more awareness to those who don't realize they are confused. The world desperately needs more awareness. Imagine how stupid the average person in the world is. Now imagine that half the world is more stupid than that. See what I mean? Peace.

PPS I am studying to be a biochemist with a focus in neurochemistry.

Posted 11/25/2014
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Great info folks !!
I currently am using the Dank Tank with a Tristick and really like it !

Posted 2/18/2015
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Hello
Can the person with the $80,000 machine contact me.
Thanks
Budlove333 @gmail.com

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Posted 3/8/2015
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Posted 3/10/2015
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Sour Sticky, on your profile you were able to add SPARC to your favorites. How did you do that? ??????????






__________________________________
see

Posted 3/13/2015
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C02Dabber -
Would love to open a dialogue and pick your brain!
Can you email me stickyicky333@gmail.com

Posted 4/9/2015
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As a citizen of Washington State, I am lucky enough to have access to a CO2 oil product produced in Bremerton WA by folks who have two of the sub critical CO2 machines, and since I have never heard of anyone with more than one, I am guessing that may be the gentleman who spoke earlier on this thread. The Evergreen Health Center is the maker of Evergreen CO2 dabbing oil which I can attest is a fine product, I have had occasion to get the Sativa, Indica and Hybrid oils, and a little dab will do ya with this clean goodness. It is amber, honey like, and vapes very clean in an e-pen. I actually eat it, which I never would do with butane hash oil.

Anecdotally, I am old enough to know pot smokers who used butane lighters for 4 decades or so, and they were all wheezy fellas, a couple of which had actually caused lung damage that doctors attributed to the butane. Most compelling for me is the group of those old gents who have gone on to vaping exclusively now all have stopped wheezing, so it seems there is less irritation, if nothing else. I will not consume BHO, it seems caustic.

Posted 4/10/2015
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LOL ................. Lung damage caused by using a butane lighter? That's gotta be the stupidest thing I've ever heard .............. actually ranks up there with the one about CO2 being solvent free and harmless.

Look people .................... it's not a difficult task to remove any trace of butane from an extraction. I can take BHO, have it lab tested it for RST and it will come back with ZERO traces of butane.

Don't believe all the dopes that come on here and in an attempt to pitch their oil or dispensary by trying to portray BHO as this evil product.

Fact is CO2 pulls out way more harmful products out of the plant than butane does. CO2 pulls out all the water of the plant into the extraction and if that plant has pesticides in it ...................... it will remain in the extraction. If it's not purged properly you will be vaping those chemicals. So just like BHO, CO2 must be purged correctly ............... if not they can both be harmful to your health in the long run.

Posted 4/13/2015
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HeMan its kinda hard to take you seriously when you resort to name calling. Everyone here is having polite rational conversation, and nobody but you seems to have portrayed anything as "evil." You also don't offer anything different from the other people trying to push their product and vouch for it by referencing lab testing and dropping a lot of jargon. I only trust lab testing too, doesn't mean I trust you.

Now you obviously know a lot about the products, so maybe you can educate people a little more kindly in the future.

Posted 4/14/2015
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My apologies ........ I just get tired of the misinformation that continues to pop up on this subject.

Posted 4/26/2015
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As someone new to the oil game coming here to find new information, I found most of your posts helpful albeit pretentious as fuck. You guys know stuff. Awesome. That's why people like me come here to ask questions...it would be really nice if if one could get info without being made to feel like a plebeian. I can feel the emotion behind a lot of these posts., try to cut that shit out. Seriously being a master of your craft doesn't merit being a douche to those who aren't to your level.

Posted 4/26/2015
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But what am I saying? We're on a forum. Of course people are going to say things in a way that they probably wouldn't to a stranger/the general public if they approached them.

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Posted 5/8/2015
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Posted 10/8/2015
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Hey guys is making co2 the same process as making bho?

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Posted 10/15/2015
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Posted 10/15/2015
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No bro, BHO means butane was used as a solvent. Meanwhile, CO2 (especially when it comes to "super fluid critical CO2 extraction") is the "solvent", used to extract. Technically to be as "pure"(free of "wax") as BHO, a CO2 extracted honey oil needs to be purged(usually with ethanol). There were a lot of good points that were brought up previous to this comment, especially the question "is co2 extract solventless?". Well, like these guys said, it depends. In my opinion, if we're choosing blindly between a BHO oil and a CO2 oil, I go with the CO2 for safety. However, very often a masterfully produced BHO Shatter or Live Resin will outweigh your average CO2 honey oil in quality, particularly in flavor and aroma.

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Posted 11/19/2015
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Posted 12/3/2015
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Posted 2/9/2016
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Does anyone have any links to information that backs up their position on CO2 vs. Butane? I found this thread because one dispensaries in MA uses one method and another uses the other and since I have the choice I want to know which one is healthier for me. But a lot of the comments in this thread feel more like opinion than fact to me. Although it sounds like the answer may be, depends on how it is done.

Also, where does this wax show up from? If there is no wax in the plant and CO2 is not wax... I don't get this.

Posted 2/10/2016
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In a Co2 extraction, the water in the plant is also extracted and along with that comes the pesticides. In a Butane extraction, none of the water is extracted so the pesticides are not extracted. Co2 extractions are the culprit behind any and all edible and concentrate recalls that are occuring in Colorado. A Butane extraction requires the purging /removal of any residual butane ... but that's an easy process that is accomplished naturally over time, through de-carbing or an ethynol wash. I'll take BHO over the over-hyped Co2 any day.

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Posted 3/4/2016
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Posted 3/14/2016
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Being new here, I hope we're allowed to post links, but this one should help with understanding extractions for some.
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/
They do not sell anything, but offer information.
Sorry if it's not allowed.

Posted 4/10/2016
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Reading the various posts have me SO confused, which is safe BHO or Co2? Have Epilepsy & M.S. and was told concentrations were provide the potency to relieve the CHRONIC PAIN! While seeking relief from these ailments I don't want to try something that could make matters worst. Have been taking for DECADES, but rolling is not potent enough. Would appreciate heartfelt answers for a real problem. ...

Posted 4/18/2016
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Pick your poison ..................

BHO is only a possible problem if the butane is not purged off.. which is very easy to do by the way.

Co2 is a problem in that if there are any pesticides in the flowers ..... they will easily make their way into the extraction. Once they are there .......... not so easy to remove them.

I'd stick with BHO ................

Posted 4/19/2016
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Isn't it true that pesticides are concentrated in both BHO and CO2 extraction techniques?

Posted 4/23/2016
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No that's not true. If pesticides are present in the plant material, they will be carried into the extraction via the water that is pulled out in a co2 process. Butane does not pull any water into the extraction.

Posted 7/24/2016
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How much butane is showing up in your lab-tested BHO? And what potency, if you don't mind me asking. Thanks for all the info!

Posted 8/14/2016
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If you are asking me ...............there is zero traces of butane remaining ................. below detectable levels to be precise. Removing any trace of butane from an extraction is about the easiest process going.

As far as potency ................. it will test out anywhere from 50% to 75% .............. depending on what end product the extract will go into. Up to me how high or low the test results come out.

Posted 11/24/2016
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